Interview with Zainab Jones Where were you born? I was born in Sierra Leone. When did you arrive in the UK? I arrived in 1970. What was your mode of transport? Me? I came by plane and first of all we stopped in Dusseldorf, Germany. You know I was very inexperienced and as a teenager I was very anxious and worried, so I followed everyone that was getting off the plane but I wasn’t supposed to have gotten off as my mother had booked a hotel for me within the airport and I wasn’t aware of that. So I got into trouble with the immigration and I couldn’t speak the language, but when they looked at my ticket, they found out that I was supposed to have stayed in and slept at the hotel and have my connecting flight the following day. It was an experience as after that I got a plane directly to Glasgow. When I got there my first experience was “oh this is England?” because the buildings were all black, all the same, whereas, in Sierra Leone, they were different, the houses were painted in different colours, I thought it was more beautiful in Sierra Leone then here when I came over. How old were you when you came over? I was 14. What other things did you notice once you arrived in Glasgow? I came over in October and I found that most people were wearing grey and black clothing and I come from a very vibrant society where people wear all sorts of shapes and colours, I noticed that and how people here were moving much faster than Sierra Leone. I’ll always remember this, the first thing my mother bought me was a packet of cheese and onion crisps at the airport and since then cheese and onion crisps has always been my favourite. What was it like growing up in the UK? The first day I started school, I went to my history class and I couldn't understand anything my teacher was saying apart from “be quiet” but after some days I picked up the accent and I could understand what he was saying a bit. I could remember my history lesson because they were teaching the scramble of Africa which I had started learning in Sierra Leone, but the angle was very different. When I learnt it back home, I learnt about the Mali Empire, Mansa Musa, but when I came over they were saying “the missionaries went to civilise etc” it was very embarrassing. That's when I started questioning the teachers as before I was very quiet in class, but when I started history here which was different from what I had learnt, I would question it and ask my mother when I got home who would say “be quiet, don't argue with the teacher”. So that was an experience for me. A lot of the people in my class, some girls for example that were friendly and used to take me around the school. I came across people who were very curious who wanted to touch my hair, wanting to touch my body, because I think in the whole school they were probably 2 black girls and one mixed girl, so I stood out. It was very different because the things that were said in the class, I can’t imagine them being said now. For instance, over time one of my math teachers asked “what's the area of a trapezium”. I was the only person who knew and he said to the class “you should be ashamed of yourselves, look at Elizabeth from deepest Africa, she knows the answer and you don’t”. I mean it was nothing, but I can’t imagine things like that being said now. What was it like raising your children in the UK? What was that experience, were they experiencing racism? It’s a long story - where do I start. When we moved here it was still a predominantly white middle-class area and I don’t think the schools were accustomed to dealing with people like us. I remember when my eldest started reception, I noticed that other children were coming out with drawings and paintings and were showing their parents, but he didn’t bring any. When I asked for his work, he would say “I don't have any”. When I asked the teacher she was offended by just me asking so I had to have a meeting with the head and deputy headteacher, however, by the end of the meeting, we came to an understanding and then he started bringing homework. For me it has been a struggle with every single one of them (children), just to make sure that they are getting the right education. Even as early as 2009, my son was put on foundation for science, I had to go into the school and have meetings about why this was the case and eventually he was put on higher and he got A A B. For my other son, I had to go into the school and make a fuss because I was put into a lower set but our neighbour’s child would constantly come to him for help on his work, it wasn’t until one day my son was off sick so I told him to go to our neighbour to ask for the work that he missed out on and he said “we aren’t in the same class”, I said “what do you mean?” and he replied “they are in a higher set than me and that’s why I don’t understand why they keep asking me for help with their homework, that’s where sir put me, in the middle class” so I had to go back to the school. I can understand why children easily fall through, so I have always had to go to their schools and question things, it was a constant struggle Moving from Glasgow to Ladbroke Grove, what was that like, were the issues you faced in Glasgow different to the ones you dealt with in West London? My experience was different because the area in Glasgow didn’t have that many black people, but we also didn’t have any issues with the police, I can’t remember any of my brothers having issues with them either. In fact, my mother would say “when I come from work and they see me in my nursing uniform, they would give me a lift home”. It’s difficult to compare as the areas were different, whereas in Ladbroke grove, there was a significant proportion of Black people and we were over-policed, you would see them on the streets everywhere. What was it like during the Notting Hill riots in 1976? Well I remember the day very clearly, it started around oxford gardens under the bridge. We weren’t in the midst, I was with my mum walking around looking at the floats (during carnival) and all of a sudden we saw people running coming down towards us. There were bottles and sticks, things flying all over the place, we knew there was trouble so we ran and took shelter. It was very chaotic. Growing up in London as a Black woman, did you have to create your own spaces/ groups? Oh yes, we had Afro-Caribbean supplementary Saturday school, where we used to teach Black history, maths, science and English. In those days teaching Black history was very political, it was seen as the right thing to do. We did a lot of self-help projects, we would help parents, give them advice when they were having issues with their children at school, we would tell them where to go for help in general. How was it creating your own spaces especially as you said it was the norm to even teach Black History? We had no choice, because the achievement of Black kids was so great and I had also done some voluntary work in youth clubs, creating spaces for women, especially young girls. We had no choice but to do something, it was very important. Most people that I know from those days were involved in one thing or another, whether that be an African dance group or theatre etc. that was the generation- because things were much harder for us, we had to organise ourselves and do a lot of self-help projects. I think with the generation that came after us, things were getting a bit easier, so perhaps people didn’t see the need to organise so much, but I’m really glad about what I’m seeing now with the Black Lives Matter movement as it has re-ignited what was going on in the 80s, it’s hopeful How different is the UK now to how it was when you first arrived? Well we have come a long way, even when I started teaching, we were so few and far between, that even the people I was having the most problems from unfortunately were the Black students and when I would sit with the few Black colleges of mine at lunch who experienced the same thing, they used to say, the reason this is the case is perhaps that they weren’t accustomed to being taught by Black teachers, so they would test us all to see if we knew our stuff and rightly so. We have come a long way, even seeing Black people on TV and in every profession we have come a long way, we have seen some representation, but we need a lot more. In terms of racism? It is still there, maybe not as blatant as it was in the past for example when my mother was looking for jobs (before becoming a nurse) they would say “we would like to give you this job but our employees may not want to work with you”, now they wouldn’t say things like that, but things like were said to my mother’s generation. What do you hope to see change in the future for Black people in the UK? What I can see happening now is very promising as I see a lot of white people becoming aware of it happening to Black people especially with the rise of the BLM demonstrations, I can see a lot of young white people who are in solidarity with us, so I think there is a lot more awareness now of racism than in my day during the 70s and 80s. Things might not change overnight but we are leading in the right direction, people are organising, even if you look at the media, we have a presence there from journalists to presenters etc.. We are telling our own stories. We see shows like “African Renaissance”; we are the best people to tell our own stories, we have to write our own experience. Social media has also facilitated the dissemination of information, we are moving forward. I’m sure people like yourself are going to carry the torch and the banner. We have to change and make the changes too. We have to take the lead and others will come in solidarity, we can’t sit with our hands folded. We have to do our best with our education, take as many opportunities as you can and be there, be a part of the change in any way that you can (like what you’re doing now, well done to you all). Written by Sahra-IshaInterview and Transcript conducted by Sahra-Isha Muhammad-Jones - 3rd year Comparative Literature student 2020-2021
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